By Nick Metzger & Lee Rice Epstein
Featuring Damon Smith
A continuation of the conversation between Lee, Damon Smith, and myself
talking about the recent Balance Point Acoustics releases among many other
things. Also be sure to catch Smith on tour this April & May in a trio
with Jason Stein and Adam Shead whose new album Volumes & Surfaces we
discuss below.
Sarah Ruth Alexander/Damon Smith - God Made My Soul an Ornament (Balance Point Acoustics, 2021)
Another standout in this roundup is “God Made My Soul an Ornament” from
the duo of Smith and singer, multi-instrumentalist Sarah Ruth
Alexander. The diverse array of instruments and traps Alexander
utilizes makes for a full and heady listening experience, while her
vocals add a much appreciated lyrical dimension. Smith provides a
perfect complimentary aesthetic that sees him mining his range of
sounds and techniques. - NM
DS: I went to Texas in I think, 2017 or something for a family health
situation, and my girlfriend was at Harvard working on the Bauhaus show,
the Bauhaus Centennial Show, and so she had that to do and when I didn't
have gigs, I was pretty free. And I've been teaching remotely for years
already by that point. So I could just go to Texas. So I went to Texas to
kind of take care of her mom and be with her mom after she just got out of
the hospital and stuff. And I brought my travel bass so I could practice
because I was there for like two and a half weeks. The first time Stephan
Gonzalez had a music series and Stephan wasn't available Sarah took it over
and got in touch with me, found out I was there, and I didn't know when I
went down at this time that I'd be able to play at all. She organized some
concerts for me in Denton and in Dallas then I met and heard her on one of
those nights. Then we got to know each other, she's got a lot of similar
interests, there's a lot of similarities, and she gets a lot from
literature and visual art and other things like that. And there's a lot of
similar tastes that we have and then a lot of different tastes, which makes
it interesting. But the fact that a lot of her influencers are coming from
these other art forms was a really great place for us to connect. So we did
several duo concerts, and then we made this duo recording, like two in the
morning at North Texas State and it had been sitting for a while, and we
wanted to do it.
She had been reading the Book of Disquiet by Fernando Pessoa, which is a
big one for me, and it turned out one of the interesting things is that my
very first bass guitar teacher (Chris Daniels) was a student of Jaco
Pastorius, which I thought was cool. But then I sort of lost touch with
him, and then when I got in touch with him again, it turned out that he had
learned Portuguese from working in kitchens and became one of the primary
translators of Fernando Pessoa’s Heteronyms. He's got two books out and he
gave me a Pessoa translation. I thought that was really exciting. It's a
bold title in a way and I don't necessarily have a spiritual practice. I'm
more like Barre Phillips who said, my religion is bass. I feel like art is
a place where we can try to hover above our humanity and petty human
squabbles rather than wallowing in them. I guess that can be thought of as
a spiritual place, but I think of it as more of a subconscious space or
whatever. So I'm not so much into God or souls necessarily, but I love this
title. Ernesto Montiel is also a great musician, and he had all this
beautiful artwork. And again, someone who I've talked to a lot about art
and music and literature and these other things, and we are able to get
this sculpture from him for the cover. So the design and the title of this
one, not just the music, I love the music. Playing with Sarah, it's
different every time. And more than anything, it embodies the concept that
Bill Dixon used to talk about where he said each person is their own
Orchestra. There's this architectural breadth between her and I where it's
almost like anything could happen. There's the percussion and other
instruments that she plays, like the dulcimer. But of course, it's really
grounded in her beautiful voice, this pure classical voice, and everything
hangs off of that thread, on this purity of the voice that she brings, it's
so striking. But she doesn't overuse it either. I think there's just this
breadth of playing with her in a duo that I feel like I feel like you've
probably done ten or twelve concerts together by now as a duo, maybe more,
maybe less, but we did a little tour last summer, and that's a lot for
improvised music, and then each one is completely different and has a
different range and a different way of doing things together. We've got
some things planned for this year hopefully. We're talking about doing some
stuff.
NM: This is another album that stands out like the Eternity Cult, it’s a
lot different than the other ones. And to your point, she does a great job
with all the different instruments and voice and contraptions and things.
For it being a duo album, there's a lot of information there.
LRE: Going back to Kowald for a minute, he seemed to never stop exploring
different modalities, different groups. He was constantly trying working
with new players and creating work for dance, obviously, also. You also
seem similarly interested in exploring new sounds that are exciting to you.
Because I agree with Nick, this album. It was sort of interesting to put
this one on and be like, wait a minute…(laughs)
DS: Yeah, definitely. When I heard Sarah for the first time, I was like,
yeah, this is somebody doing original work. I want to play with her. It was
the same kind of feeling as when I heard Sandy, honestly. She's got some
great recordings, which I would recommend tracking down. There's one called Words on the Wind. It's about the Panhandle of Texas. It's amazing
out, super bleak and beautiful. When I heard her. I was like, well, this is
original work, and this is something that's important.
Mitchell/Ewen/Smith/Walter - A Railroad Spike Forms the Voice (ugEXPLODE, 2021)
Brilliant improvised set, with Mitchell in particularly fine form.
Driving, grooving, swinging—whatever you expect, this is not what you
expected. It’s much, much more. - LRE
DS: That whole thing happened because of Sandy. One of the last things I
did in the Bay Area was a collaboration with a dancer named Micaela Gardner
and a filmmaker Darren Hawk. And that's on YouTube somewhere. But we did
these outdoor bass and dance pieces with the filmmaker kind of involved as
an equal partner. And when I got to Houston, there was a dance film
festival, and somebody knew that I had this film. I forget who it was. It
was someone in Houston. And they said I should apply for this festival with
that film, so I did and I got onto the festival. And then Sandy has a long
term project with a belly dancer named Yet Torres, so I first saw her on
film. I hadn't met her yet. And I was like, Whoa, that's original. I want
to play with her. And so we started to play together in Houston, she was
much younger than me. She's much younger than me. I think she's twelve
years younger or something. But I started improvised music in my 20s, and
she started it in high school. She had Keith Rowe workshops in high school.
She was already a lot more experienced than your average person in her mid
20s at this music. When I started to work with her in Houston it was
basically side by side. We were organizing things together, we were doing
projects together, and of course I had a few more connections because I've
been out in the world a little longer and stuff like that. I knew Roscoe
just from being at Mills. I wasn't at Mills, but he had an Orchestra piece
and Steve Cowert, one of the Mills professors, brought in Weasel and I to
play in this Orchestra. He said ‘hey, do you want to come play in this
Roscoe thing?’ and we're like, yeah! (laughs) And the funny thing,
the other piece on the program was In C, and Weasel did the
marimba parts for In C, and he did a fantastic job. And that was
also an eye opening moment with Weasel. We had been working together for a
bit, but then watching him just kill it on the In C part, even
though it's fairly simple, it was still like Weasel Walter. It just
expanded what we could do together. Roscoe came through Dave's
organization, Nameless Sound, David Dove's organization and there was a
workshop, and what we do in Houston, the workshops are free, and we'd all
do it no matter who it was. We'd all come to the workshop because it was a
musical thing, but it was also a social thing. We're all friends, and we're
all going to come and come together at the Roscoe Mitchell workshop. So
we're doing the workshop, And he's not really impressed with anyone except
Sandy, he really loved what she was doing. And he said to a saxophone
player, why don't you listen to her and try to play something like her? I
could listen to what she's doing all day. So he heard what everybody else
hears. So then after the workshop he said, hey, is there a beer around? So
I get him a beer, and we're having a beer together and then he asked, what
are you and Weasel doing? I said, oh, we just did an album with this guitar
player. And he said, well, I'd love to hear that. We sent him the album,
and he really liked it. So, Sandy is the reason why Roscoe knew me and
Weasel and wanted to work with us. Obviously, he spent a lot of time
talking to us, and there was a nice personal connection and everything, but
there was no sense that Weasel and I were going to play with him until
this.
And we got a gig at a place that has a really great chef. Paul Canales has
a restaurant called Duende. It just reopened in Oakland, and he's been a
huge fan of the music. He made dinner for Giani Gebbia and I in the 90s,
like a big fancy dinner with Pigeon and all this great stuff. And he's a
really cool guy, and I'd run into him at Amoeba buying CDs, and he's just
this superstar chef that is really into this music. And then I said, hey,
man, if Roscoe will play with us, will you pay him? And he said, oh, I know
exactly what he'll want. And we'll pay him. It'll be great. So I asked
Roscoe. And he said, yeah, that'd be great. And then we had it recorded.
This concert was interesting because we had a bit more responsibility to
present our music to Roscoe rather than to try to interface with his
concept, if that makes sense. And that was kind of an exciting moment,
because when I got to play with Cecil Taylor and things like that, you
really want to get inside Cecil's music. That's the whole thing. You're
trying to do that, and it's a great thing, but it's often harder in some
ways because you're going outside yourself. The whole thing was that all of
Sandy's playing on that album actually makes it a bit more than what it
would be if it was me and Weasel. It wouldn't be bad, but I think she adds
this whole other element. It's almost like an intersection of Sun Ra and
AMM in a way. Working with Sandy and Weasel, these are also people that I'm
friends with and I don't always like to push that, because I think one of
the things folks used to always say is this is not about friendship. It
should be about the music. But with Sandy and Weasel, they're definitely
people I can get projects done with. So I know if I start a project with
either or both of them, it's going to happen. It's going to get over the
finish line, we can work together in all these other aspects of getting
something done, which is why we’ve made so many albums together, things
like that. In a certain way, I feel like Sandy and I have not made enough
albums together for how much work we've done together. We've done some
stuff that's important, but I think we could use a few more because we've
just done a lot of things together. We've got a new duo that we recorded
last year or the year before that, that I'd like to get out at some point.
It was really beautiful and we got to some special places. And then we just
recorded a couple of recent things, we just did a quartet project with Lisa
Cameron, afantastic drummer, and Alex Cunningham, great violin.
LRE: This seems like Roscoe has come back to some of this long form improv.
There's been a lot of albums like Bells for Southside and Splatter, where it's almost compositional, but it's kind of
exciting in a way to hear him sort of back in a real, long form kind of
improv space, developing ideas over a much greater duration. I mean, I just
love him. Just love him.
DS: Well, yeah. He's one of the greatest. in the Art Ensemble. I was saying
that Odwalla the Juice Company is a name from the Art Ensemble, and they
would pay to bring the Art Ensemble to the Bay Area every year. So I got to
see the original quintet, I got to see the quartet formations, and I got to
see that group a bunch of times. So they were just huge for me, and I got
to see them. I saw the Art Ensemble before I was even involved in actually
trying to play this music, back when I was still trying to have a Minutemen
type band. One of the cool things about that Roscoe show was being able to
listen to his music up until then and really dive into Roscoe Mitchell's
music. One of the really exciting things is I went to my local record store
in Houston, Vinyl Edge, and I found this LP. Do you guys have this one?
(holds up Roscoe Mitchell, Tony Marsh, John Edwards LP Improvisations,
otoroku, 2013)
(NM and LRE shake heads yes)
DS: Yeah. And that's another one where he's doing improvised music on a
long form double LP with the great Tony Marsh and John Edwards, who I'm a
big fan of. And so that’s kind of exciting. And in that time period, there
wasn't a lot of that when I first started to do this music. If you wanted
to know what the new releases were, you went to the record store and you
looked.
It was one of the first times in a long time where I found an incredible
album that I didn't know about in the record store that was relevant to
what I was about to do. So it was a big moment to find that record, there's
very few times since then.
NM: One more question on the Mitchell album. When you play with somebody
like Roscoe Mitchell, who has led so many groups, and then kind of he's had
all his orchestrations, he's done conducting, how does he communicate? Did
you talk beforehand about what you wanted to do? You said that you were
going to be more geared toward what you all play?
DS: Well, we knew that he liked the album, and that's why we asked him to
play. And we didn't discuss that with him at all. He got out of stopwatch
and used it a timer, and that's why it's a CD length. So I think we knew he
was planning to play all the way to the end. I don't think he said it. We
just knew. Maybe he said it, but there was some information whether he said
it or whether it was there, that we were going to do one long piece. That
was something we knew. And then when you know that, what's pretty cool is
you can settle in and work with it. This goes into something that's a bit
like thinking about what I think about as far as the audience. I don't ever
want to compromise my music. And the kind of lucky thing for me is that's
what my audience expects of me. My audience is not expecting me to please
them. Right. I think you have to make these considerations about taking
your music out of your bedroom and into the world. And the sculptor
Lawrence Weiner, who I'm a big fan of, said you only make work for the
public, so you have to think about them to a degree. One of the things I
think about is that if possible, especially at a concert, my ideal concert
would be a local series that has two 20 to 25 minutes sets. I think what
you can give an audience is brevity if you're not working with scale.
That's the way I always like to put it. If you're not working with scale,
make things concise. But in this case, scale was part of it. We knew we're
going to make one long piece. Right. So we know we're working with scale.
And sometimes you just start working with scale. It's not discussed. It
just happens. But like Feldman, when he knows he's going to write a four
hour piece or whatever, he's working with that scale, he's trying to deal
with long form decision making and stuff like that. And I think that's what
happens in a concert, like with this quartet or recording with this
quartet, we knew we were making a long form piece. We knew we're going
over. We're kind of working with that time frame.
Ewen/Rowe/Smith + Gooseberry Marmalade - Houston 2012 (Balance Point Acoustics, 2021)
A terrific double CD that combines a set from the trio of Ewen, Rowe,
and Smith and Ewen’s Lady Band - working under the moniker Gooseberry
Marmalade here) - with a set from the trio alone. of Ewen, Rowe, and
Smith. The former was recorded live at 14 Pews, and the latter a couple
of days later at KUHF. Both discs are excellent, very much in the
spirit of Scratch Orchestra and the more subtle AMM releases, but also
very different. Despite the large group, the Gooseberry Marmalade set
is measured, even pointillist, as the band works its way through
several scores selected by Rowe, Ewen, and Smith. The trio
improvisations, likewise, are reserved pieces of sound art that detail
how differently Ewen and Rowe approach prepared guitar, smith filling
in the gaps with long bowed tones or animated grima. - NM
DS: Scale is something that Keith had often worked with in AMM. Keith is
really influenced by Cage and also Rothko and the abstract expressionist
painters and things like that who are dealing with scale and looking at
scale in that way. And one of the things I did once it came up that would
be possible to play with Keith is I would go to the Menil Collection in
Houston, which definitely has some of the best artworks in the world that
live there. Like, there's a 60 foot long Cy Twombly painting in Houston.
It's the most work of his in America, and I think the most work in one
place, and it's free. You can walk in there and look at this Cy Twombly
anytime you want. And so I'd go sit in front of the 60 foot long side
Twombly painting for like an hour, just working on my sense of scale and my
concentration on the painting, looking at the painting and things like
that. This is also something that was very much driven by Sandy in a way.
Keith had come to Houston to do a concert for Dave Dove’s organization,
Nameless Sound. And Texas has these great things called Ice Houses where
you basically sit outside and drink beer. And there's a really iconic one
called the Alabama Ice House. And we were there with Keith and that Ben
Patterson exhibition was up, and I had done the Ben Patterson piece, and
Keith was really excited and had a duo with Ben Patterson. I don't know if
there's any recordings of that, but Patterson played an electric upright
duo with Keith Rowe, and Keith was really into the connections between
Fluxus and Scratch Orchestra and stuff. And so we're drinking and talking
about that. Sandy was there and he knew her from before, he'd been coming
to Houston for a while. They've done workshops and stuff like that. And
obviously Keith is the first one to really put the guitar flat and have
that as the primary working method. A crucial difference, but an important
difference is he tests the guitar totally flat on a table, and then he has
his objects on the table, and the guitar is rigid. Right. And one of the
things about Sandy is the guitar is on her lap, and she uses her legs to
move the guitar and to move the objects on her guitar, so some of it is
coming from her legs as well. Almost like a drummer but it's not really
percussive, but it's a whole body concept. And the fact that it's on her
lap is an important part of the concept. That's not obvious. Like, you
might just think I was just there because it's flat but also her legs come
into the movement and the rhythms and the sounds that are happening. So her
hands come into it and her legs under it are moving it and I think that is
an important aspect of that. And then hearing her with Keith, you can kind
of hear there's a different type of movement in her playing versus his.
I found out from the Keith Rowe film What is Man
and what is Guitar, one of the things I took from that film was that he
first put it on the floor, which is an interesting idea. I didn't know that
he was thinking about Pollock working above the canvas on the floor, and
putting the guitar on the floor. There's that connection with Sandy and
Keith. But then the other connection was that Sandy had made this all
female ensemble that changed his name every time. And it was always a name
involving fruit and they came up with a new name every time. And then they
would make up their own little pieces and things like that. And it was very
much in the tradition of Scratch Orchestra in a way, even though she wasn't
thinking that at all, if she knew about the Scratch Orchestra, it was in
passing. She was around enough hardcore improvised music nerds that knew
the history that I'm sure the Scratch Orchestra was mentioned in her
presence at some point, but this was all her idea, to do this group with
the women. She just felt like not enough women were present on the scene.
And so it was open to people who were musicians or not. They didn't have to
be musicians. They just had to be interested. There was a choir in the Bay
Area called the Cardew Choir. And their thing was, if you're interested,
you're already qualified. Okay. So we made that connection. We asked Keith
to restage some Scratch Orchestra pieces with her all female ensemble, and
that sort of brought the whole thing together. And we brought a Cy Twombly
book of the paintings in Philadelphia, the 50 Days at Ilium, into the
studio. We used that as a graphic score, but not really. It was just there.
And then I was able to get photos from the Cy Twombly Foundation, liners
from Brian Olewnick, and then from Rebecca Novak.
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