Echtzeit@30: Introduction

Berlin, through the trees. (c) Paul Acquaro

echtzeit musik - Day 1

When the question was posed to the folks in the Free Jazz Collective, who would like to join in on a tribute to the echtzeit musik scene in Berlin, the main question was "what is the echtzeit scene"? Funnily, that was a similar answer to some that we received from several of the musicians who comprise the scene itself. It turns out, it is not the worst description of it either, as putting one's finger on it and tracing its contours has not been a straightforward endeavor. Yet it exists ... right? 

Well, we say na klar!, we think it does! "Real-time music", the English translation of "echtzeit musik" seems to have a trail of evidence. For example, we have the invaluable echtzeit musik web site, which is the go-to site to know what is happening with avant and experimental music and where in Berlin it can be found. Then, there are the venues, like the mainstays Ausland, Soweiso, Petersburg Art Space, Au Topsi, KM28, Kuehlspot, and several others. Plus, there is the history, going back, as electronics artist and saxophonist Iganz Schick points out in his interview here, to the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1991.

Anyway, as elusive or as present as it is ... in real time ... the next few days on the Free Jazz Blog we pay a tribute, on its 30th anniversary, to the ever changing and evolving experimental music emanating from the ever changing and evolving city that it has sprung from.

Today, we offer a link to some very recent video discussions that were held at the non-profit art-space exploratorium berlin commemorating, discussing, defining the scene, and we have culled an overview of recent reviews that have been posted on the Free Jazz Blog that are from musicians connected to it. We are also presenting Q&A's that we have conducted over the past month with artists from across the scenes lifespan, starting with founding members Burkhard Beins, Robin Hayward, Ignaz Schick, and Olaf Rupp. 

It is important to acknowledge that this is not a comprehensive list or feature. We would not really know where to start - or more importantly - end with getting to everyone involved. We do have many more folks that we would love to reach out to and hear back from, and maybe we can. If you have suggestions, people we should talk to, suggestions and ideas, let us know. Also, a couple of words of thanks: Keith Prosk was instrumental in developing and shaping the feature, as well as making connections and reviewing albums. Martin Schray and Eyal Hareuveni assisted with Q&As and reviews, and Cristina Marx lent us her fantastic photography.

- Paul Acquaro

And so it begins ... 

echtzeitmusik-related recordings previously reviewed by The Free Jazz Collective in 2021

Lucio Capece & Ben Vida - Unwelt (Bocian, 2020)
Read our review here .
https://bocian.bandcamp.com/album/umwelt

Cranes - Formation < Deviation (Relative Pitch Records, 2021)
Read our review here .
https://matthiasmueller.bandcamp.com/album/formation-deviation

Achim Kaufmann & Ignaz Schick - Altered Alchemy (Zarek, 2021)
Read our review here .
https://zarekberlin.bandcamp.com/album/altered-alchemy

Daniel Lercher, Sabine Vogel - Bogong Dam (self-released, 2021)
Read our review here .
https://sabinevogel.bandcamp.com/track/bogong-dam

Magda Mayas - Confluence (Relative Pitch Records, 2021)
Read our review here .
https://magdamayas.bandcamp.com/album/magda-mayas-filamental-confluence

Microtub - Sonic Drift (Sofa, 2021)
Read our review here .
https://robinhayward2.bandcamp.com/album/sonic-drift

Olaf Rupp - NOBEACH (Audiosemantics, 2020)
Read our review here .
https://audiosemantics.bandcamp.com/album/nobeach

Olaf Rupp - Nowhere Near (Audiosemantics, 2021)
Read our review here .
https://audiosemantics.bandcamp.com/album/nowhere-near

Schick/Steidle - ILOG2 (Zarek, 2021)
Read our review here .
https://zarekberlin.bandcamp.com/album/ilog2

Schmoliner/Melbye/Gordoa - GRIFF (Inexhaustible Editions, 2020)
Read our review here .
https://inexhaustibleeditions.bandcamp.com/album/griff

Superimpose - With (Inexhaustible Editions, 2021)
Read our review here .
https://inexhaustibleeditions.bandcamp.com/album/with-john-butcher-sofia-jernberg-nate-wooley

Biliana Voutchkova - Seeds of Songs (Takuroku, 2021)
Read our review here .
https://bilianavoutchkova.bandcamp.com/album/seeds-of-songs

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Video: 

In this video, moderated by Mathias Maschat, Alexander Markvart, Rieko Okuda, Ignaz Schick und Alexander von Schlippenbach discuss the generations of experimental musicians in Berlin. It serves as  a nice introduction to the echtzeit musik scene. More can be found on the exploratorium's YouTube channel.

   

Please check out the Q&A's off the site's main page, or by clicking on the "echtzeit@30" tag.

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echtzeit@30: Q&A with Carina Khorkhordina

Carina Khorkhordina (w/Hiroki Mano). (c) Cristina Marx/Photomusix

Explore Carina Khorkhordina’s site here . Recent releases include Carina Khorkhordina, Eric Bauer with Eric Bauer.

What is echtzeitmusik to you? Is what might be considered echtzeitmusik connected through any approach, process, or sound result?

To me echtzeitmusik represents a certain period of improvised music in Berlin in the 1990s–2000s, echoes of which we are still enjoying and witnessing. While most of the main protagonists (people I know best are Axel Dörner, Andrea Neumann, Burkhard Beins) are still around and they definitely can play excellent music in this “style,” or according to the logic they originally developed, mainly they're doing a lot of other things which aren't directly associated with the particular “sound” and aesthetic decisions of what ended up being defined as “echtzeitmusik.” I also have an impression that some of them are not particularly fond of the term “reductionism.”

Besides, we still have an echtzeitmusik calendar, which is listing a lot of improvised/new music/free jazz/experimental concerts in Berlin, which is very useful, especially if you don't want to rely on facebook to learn about the concerts.

Is there something material - like demographics, affordability, or cultural practices - about Berlin that you think makes such a scene possible?

When I arrived in Berlin in 2013 for a longer visit, I found it not so affordable at all! Aside from the music itself, the main attraction was definitely the openness of people, you could attend concerts and easily be included in the social environment. I mostly felt quite welcome, and people were curious about me. Yes, I also experienced hostility, but this was rather exceptions.

Initially I was attracted to Berlin as a listener, because there was so much going on. I was not playing music publicly at that time and had no ambitions to do so. Although I did attend some workshops and I played with friends in my hometown. The fact that I started playing concerts in 2017 is due to the community being so incredibly open. I got invited to play a concert with some musicians I admire (in the band I am now a member of: Klub Demboh), and there were more musicians that I really like in the audience. [These were still the golden days of Neu West Berlin on Kurfürstenstrasse right in the prostitution area. The guys running it were clearly doing illegal stuff and they also had an endorsement with Adidas for some reason, the main guy always wore new Adidas sneakers. Later they started stealing our door money because they were drug addicts. The electricity in the entire venue was cut off. Klub Demboh concerts moved eventually to Petersburg Art Space.] I was nervous but I managed not to ruin anything in that performance, and after this I kept being invited to play different small scale door gigs. Less than a year later I got my first official paid concert – exciting! So, still a big surprise to myself, I became a musician.

In what ways do you think the scene has changed since your involvement and what might have caused these changes?

This is difficult for me to judge. I heard an opinion, or a concern, that people might adjust their artistic (or curatorial) work a bit too much to fit the funding guidelines – and that affects the result. Not necessarily in a bad way. I may sometimes slightly sense that it's happening, but would not want to claim anything concrete. I hope people still do exactly what they want to do artistically. But I do not think that we are completely independent here, just playing our idealistic music. Everybody needs money to survive. Living is not getting cheaper. Finding a flat in Berlin is extremely hard nowadays, and if you manage to find it, it won't be cheap like what you hear from people with the old rent contracts.

Probably people still keep coming to Berlin because in the other places it is much worse.

Otherwise I think when I arrived, there was quite a heterogenous mixture of styles and approaches coexisting, and that whole mix is still constantly evolving and changing – people are coming and going, trying new things, venues are closing and the new ones are opening – with no fixed style or sound dominating.

Are there any recordings, labels, venues, musicians, or other participants you would like to shout out for cultivating the scene, or that you feel are essential to it? And is there a recording of you or your work that you feel is particularly representative of the scene?

One incredible organizer is Alexander Markvart. He is doing the programming at Petersburg Art Space and he was in Berlin since 2018, I think. He is also a fantastic musician with a very broad understanding of the music. Unfortunately the German authorities are not giving him an answer on his artist visa since 1,5 years despite many letters, invitations and paid concerts (for which he could not come). So he is at the moment in Russia but I find that he became essential for the Berlin scene.

My personally favorite venue is Au Topsi Pohl. Also this is the place where I was starting to play in the regular workshops run by Joel Grip and Tristan Honsinger. Another person who really supported me in the very beginning is Emilio Gordoa. I am very thankful for their generosity.

What did you find in Berlin that you did not find in Russia?

Musically: people are actually listening when you play together.

In Russia there is not that much exchange and live musical practice with other musicians who are maybe more experienced or coming from different cultures. Not so many Russian musicians are travelling outside of the country (it is difficult because of the visa and the costs). Also, at least in Kaliningrad, even among musicians often there is an attitude towards improvisation that it is not so serious, more like jamming, making noise.

On the political and personal levels, there is a lot I could say, but perhaps this is not directly connected to echtzeitmusik anymore. 

 

- Interview conducted by Keith Prosk

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Echtzeit@30: Q&A with Robin Hayward

Robin Hayward. (c) Cristina Marx/Photomusix

Explore Robin Hayward’s site here . Recent Releases include Sonic Drift with Martin Taxt and Peder Simonsen and a reissue of Live At ISSUE Project Room with Catherine Christer Hennix’ Chora(s)san Time-Court Mirage.

FJB: What is echtzeitmusik to you? Is what might be considered echtzeitmusik connected through any approach, process, or sound result?

Robin Hayward: To be honest I wasn’t aware there was an ‘echtzeitmusik’ scene until I came to Berlin in 1998. I came to focus on exploring a particular approach to free improvisation that, unfortunately in my opinion, later came to be labelled ‘Berlin Reductionism.’ The Echtzeitmusik scene also came to be associated with this, though it’s clear that it was always more than this and that this approach only ever comprised one part of it.

Is there something material - like demographics, affordability, or cultural practices - about Berlin that you think makes such a scene possible?

When I first moved to Berlin I was pleasantly surprised how cheap the rents were, having moved from London. Although I had to teach English for the first two years after moving there, this meant I still had some time to focus on the music. The rents are becoming much more expensive now though.

In what ways do you think the scene has changed since your involvement and what might have caused these changes?

I think the people I was working with intensely when I first moved there - Annette Krebs, Andrea Neumann, Burkhard Beins and Axel Dörner - have mostly moved on to explore other musical directions. And there’s a whole group of other people exploring different things too. So it’s more varied than it used to be, at least from my perspective.

In what ways has the scene changed you and your musical practice?

That’s very difficult to say. I never really thought of it as being a scene actually, just a bunch of people whose musical interests overlapped for a while. We all influenced each other in different ways, but it feels a bit strange to say that that it was ’the scene’ that influenced me.

Are there any recordings, labels, venues, musicians, or other participants you would like to shout out for cultivating the scene, or that you feel are essential to it? And is there a recording of you or your work that you feel is particularly representative of the scene?

The recording I made with Roananax (with Annette Krebs, Andrea Neumann and Axel Dörner) in 1999 is probably the best document of what I was involved in back then. This was released much later by Another Timbre, I think in 2015, together with the trio Obliq (Pierre Borrel, Hannes Lingens and Derek Shirley). Of my solo work I think the CD / LP States of Rushing (released on Choose in 2009) best sums up what I was into in my first decade in Berlin. Since then I’ve been focusing on exploring the microtonal tuba, though I would like to go back and explore the ’noise-valve’ tuba more if I ever find the time to do so. Of the current venues I’d say the Labor Sonor series at Die Kule is probably the most reflective of the scene, along with Ausland.

What did you find in Berlin that was not in the UK?

The long winters. People can become very self-absorbed in Berlin too (myself included), so it’s definitely important to work outside of Berlin too.

- Q&A conducted by Keith Prosk

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Ignaz Schick - Sunday Interview

Ignaz Schick - Photo by Nuno Martins

1. What is your greatest joy in improvised music?
   
   There are different joy moments, one definitely is when your primal intuition proves to be right. This can be the idea for a line-up, or a musical/material decision you make while playing. In both line-up and material and in improvisation generally speaking we take risks. Like does it really work if I put player A and Player B together in a trio with myself. Then you go on stage, and it comes out exactly as you imagined, or different but even more beautiful than you expected. Similar for musical material, sometimes it is clear what the situation needs, but very often it is a very intuitive decision making process, and when this decisions work, it usually is a big moment of happiness and joy. Another level of course is when you find the new or unexpected. When you don’t expect anything and it just happens. When I found out for myself that objects vibrate and sound just beautifully when being played on and animated directly by holding them onto the rotating platter of a turntable, I found this magic toy by a pure random mistake, and a whole new cosmos of sounds opened up to me. This are the moments you look for! I still remember and I will never forget this exact instant, it was a revelation, this are moments of pure joy and they usually have a long lasting big impact on your work. This moments are rare and thus so valuable. And of course sharing music, with the colleagues while we make it, and with the audience and friends, for whom we make it ...
   
   
   
2. What quality do you most admire in the musicians you perform with?
   
   The ability of (deep) listening, the ability to only play if the music asks for it, and the ability to play the right thing in whatever situation. Plus the curiosity for the unknown or unexpected and a general openness to whatever music or situation. For me it is always an amazing and magical moment if I play music with musicians from completely different styles or geographical/cultural background and when we come together and we find a way to communicate and play music together. This happened to me when playing with Mwata Bowden, with African musicians like Amine Mesnaoui, or recently on many occasions with musicians from Vietnam, Indonesia or India where many were from classical Indian background. Still we were able to play together and create something beautiful as we were all open and ready for it. Another feature I really admire is the type of musicians or improvisors, who really invest themselves, like in musical situations which are complicated or may it be just during a bad and difficult day. There is this type of players, who will lean back and say, oh, this won’t work, and they pull out and let the music fall down. But then there are this other players, who really invest and give everything, who will always try and never give up no matter how difficult the situation or constellation is. They really want to play the music, they want it to come out and unfold, they want to have a good time, so they will do everything to make it happen. I love this type of players. Paul Lovens was such a player, Burkhard Beins, Oliver Steidle and Ernst Bier as well. All of them are drummers, interesting, no? And I admire players who will surprise me, either with unexpected sounds, or crazy decisions, where you have to be on your toe all the time, you have to stay wake and alert and be ready for anything any time. Don Cherry was a master of this, also Charlemagne Palestine and Limpe Fuchs. And, there are this musicians, where you never need to worry, you just start to play, and they have this amazing skill of making you forget all technical issues, cause they are so accomplished, and at the same time generous, the music just comes out and you don’t have to think at all, almost like autopilot, you just let it flow...
   
   
3. Which historical musician/composer do you admire the most?
   (see below, these two questions were inadvertently mixed together when the questions were sent out - FJB)
   
   
4. If you could resurrect a musician to perform with, who would it be?
   
   From Jazz and my personal history and even though I played with him, Don Cherry of course. I was too young and not ready in those days when he asked to sit in with them. Now it would be super interesting and with what I do now to play with Don would be a dream. I think I could really challenge him now. I know his mindset would be wide open, he would be absolutely up for it, even the most crazy noise stuff, he would love it. With his immense openness he would completely understand and embrace what I am doing. He just lived too fast for me, in double triple tempo… From that period, maybe also Lester Bowie with his more abstract phases. I always loved his vocality and super beautiful extended sounds on trumpet. And another trumpeter, Bill Dixon !! But as I live in our time, it is more about catching up with all those amazing players who are all around now, especially the young ones, so many interesting musicians are around, it’s just wonderful! And from the living legends, one player who we wouldn’t need to resurrect: Wadada Leo Smith, that would be another dream!!
   
   
5. What would you still like to achieve musically in your life?
   
   Oh, wow, big question. I have never been the person who wanted to play with famous people, or win one of those stupid prizes, like a Grammy, or those ridiculous jazz prizes. It seems some people need those to reassure that they have some importance, because it seems that their music is not enough (for them). I could have aimed for such career paths, but it would have also meant to compromise my music and ideas, to adapt to the business, and to those mafia type opinion makers, and this was never my scope. I am always trying to bring into life the music I hear in my inner ear. And it is quite crazy stuff, anti-career sound so to say ! I think I still want to write more music, and this music is dense, energetic, almost orchestral, weird and mystic stuff. A music full of unheard sounds. So right now I am working on building a community of musicians who a interested and ready to go this path with me, and the nice thing is, there are more and more colleagues who support me and my vision in a very loyal way, that is really a big gift for me. Plus I am building my own sound makers/objects/instruments to bring this sound out. I am not sure if I can achieve it with existing instruments. Partially maybe, but I need to go deeper to dig it out, … I am getting closer, but it is still along path.
   
   
6. Are you interested in popular music and - if yes - what music/artist do you particularly like?
   
   Not really, I went into avantgarde music when I was 11/12 years old, and I always felt quite fulfilled in that zone. I don’t know much about Pop music, I do not really follow what is happening there, and if I get to hear stuff, it is quite random how it comes to my ears. I do like some of it sometimes, I think Prince was a genius, or I highly respect Michael Jackson for his music and performance. I am not interested in his Yellow Press trivia and scandals, but I think he was an amazing artist. I love James Brown, Funk, Soul and good HipHop. I really like it most when it is raw, pure, honest. And I like a lot of the old stuff from the 1960ies, the Beatles, some of the early Stones, Hendrix of course, The Who, … At the same time there is a lot of crap, especially since MTV came on, or this brainwashing Autotune stuff. I just can’t take it, it is like a big stinky rubbish dump, and as we are polluting and destroying our planet by exploiting it and not caring, we also get polluted in our brains by the consumerist mass media and what bullshit music they throw at us nowadays. So it has been really quite rare that I hear some really cool stuff that manages to pull me in. It is always very random, like Björk and Tricky back in the day worked for me, funny enough also Amy Winehouse. There might be a lot of great stuff I miss out on, but I do not follow Pop, I know nothing about it, seriously, it’s not my field, in another life hopefully, but not now, we only live once and I am still busy catching up with all those other histories of music ...
   
   
7. If you could change one thing about yourself, what would it be?
   
   A lot of things, first thing talk less when I am amongst people, … Focus more on one thing maybe instead of doing so many things in parallel, … Hard to say, we are who we are, and I have learned not to worry so much anymore and to simply accept who I am. Feels not that bad eventually.
   
   
8. Which of your albums are you most proud of?
   
   Perlonoid from Perlonex, It Aint Necessarily So from Perlonex & Charlemagne Palestine, my solo Rotary Perceptions, ILOG2, Now Is Forever, … It is hard to say, I am generally not so proud of my albums, they are (transition) documents of a long and painful process, but generally speaking recently I am quite ok and in peace with what I am doing. In composition I am slowly getting there. I enjoy to improvise with different folks and types of players. I love playing very physical solo vinyl sets, and I am usually having quite a blast playing saxophone with some well selected rhythms sections. So let’s see, hopefully soon there will be more albums that I can be proud of ...
   
   
9. Once an album of yours is released, do you still listen to it? And how often?
   
   Not so often, but more for time reasons, so many new things are happening, maybe one day when I get older I hope I can re-listen everything.
   
   Some years ago a good friend and respected colleague of mine who I didn't know that well at the time played me different albums over a dinner and we talked about it. He wanted to hear my opinion, like in a blindfold test. I think I was highly critical about everything and so at some point he played me my own record, a duo with Andrea Neumann. I did not recognize it in the beginning, and I started analyzing and commenting. "Oh it’s this and that, like a drone, oh, interesting sound, ah, it is prepared piano, oh, it could be inside piano, oh, this sounds like Andrea Neumann. Damn, this is Andrea Neumann. No idea who the electronics person is, Oh, why did he do this, and that, oh, interesting how he decided to place this harsh noise." And then suddenly "Oh shit, that’s me, it is my own record with Andrea, I haven’t heard that in ages. Man, you really got me here." He smiled at me and we burst out in laughter.
   
   
10. Which album (from any musician) have you listened to the most in your life?
    
    In no specific order:
    
    • Ornette Coleman – The Shape of Jazz to Come
    • Alber Ayler Quartet – Live in Hilversum
    • Don Cherry/Colin Walcott/Nana Vasconcelos – Codona 2
    • Don Cherry/Ed Blackwell - El Corazon
    • Old And New Dreams, all three albums on Black Saint and ECM
    • Abdullah Ibrahim – The Journey
    • Abdullah Ibrahim/Johnny Dyani – Echoes from Africa
    • Don Cherry – Complete Communion + Brown Rice
    • Art Ensemble of Chicago – Urban Bushmen
    • Archie Shepp & The New York Contemporary Five - this albums and a few others were spinning in nonstop autoreverse mode when I started getting into music in a serious way.
    
    
11. What are you listening to at the moment?
    
    The music of the composers Pierluigi Billone, Jani Christou, Georg Friedirch Haas, Klaus Lang
    
    Plus various stacks of vinyls I bought recently including traditional music from Sudan, Africa, Tibet, Turkey, ...
    
    Stack 1 includes amongst others
    
    • Graham Moncur III – Evolution
    • Dewey Redman – Look For the Black Star
    • Dieb13 – synkleptie no 1044
    • Dollar Brand – Cape Town Fringe
    • Lester Bowie – Gittin' To Know Y’All
    • Field – Someone Talked
    • Wayne Horvitz-Butch Morris-Robert Previte – nine below zero
    • Zazou/Bikaye – Guilty!
    • Die Vögel Europas – Best Before
    • Senyawa – Alkisah
    • Don Cherry/Jean Schwarz with Michel Portal, J.F. Jenny-Clark & Nana Vasconcelos – Roundtrip (1977) Live at Théatre Récamier Paris
    • Alterations – My Favorite Animals
    • Dewey Redman/Ed Blackwell – Red and Black in Willisau
    • Austin Buckett – Grain Loops 1-30, 30 Works For Sandpaper and 4 Snare Drums
    • Mei Zhiyong – Live in Switzerland
    • The Scorpions & Said Abu Bakr – Jazz Jazz Jazz
    • Night and Day – Live 15.Juni 1984 „FIRST“ Nightclub ehemals FOFIS, Berlin
    • Otomo Yoshihide/Steve Beresford – Museum of Towing and Recovery
      
      … I hope you don’t wanna know what is in the other stacks ! :-o
    
    
12. What artist outside music inspires you?
    
    So many, it is an endless list of visual artists, writers, film makers, better don’t get me started. Interests and attention constantly shift here luckily, … In the moment I am reading different books and texts by Roland Barthes about phenomenology, for study and analysis reasons. And I am re-checking the photography of Alfred Stieglitz and some others. Also I saw a beautiful documentary on Arte about Mark Rothko, just to name some ...

 

Ignaz Schick's music reviewed on the Free Jazz Blog:

• Douglas R. Ewart & Ignaz Schick - Now Is Forever (Zarek, 2023)
• Ignaz Schick & Oliver Steidle - ILOG3 (Zarek, 2023)
• Ernst Bier / Gunnar Geisse / Ignaz Schick - Hawking Extended (Zarek, 2023)
• A L'ARME Festival Vol. 10 (Part 1)
• Liz Allbee / John Butcher / Ignaz Schick / Marta Zapparoli - lamenti dall’infinito (NI VU NI CONNU, 2022)
• Echtzeit@30: Q&A with Ignaz Schic
• Jazz em Agosto 2021 - Day 2
  
  
•  A special note - this was just released on vinyl this past week:
  
  

 

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echtzeit@30: Q&A with Matthias Müller

Matthias Müller. (c) Cristina Marx/Photomusix

FJB: How did you get in touch with “Echtzeitmusik“?

Matthias Müller: I probably first came into contact with the term “Echtzeitmusik“ in 2004. That was the year I moved to Berlin, but it might have been even earlier, I don't really remember. At that time I was still more rooted in the jazz scene, even though my music already was a lot about free improvisation. I then came across alternative concert venues and series via the website www.echtzeitmusik.de, which already existed at the time. So I was able to make new contacts and immerse in an almost completely new musical world.

What does “Echtzeitmusik“ mean to you?

First of all, “Echtzeitmusik" is not a musical style - at least not anymore. When the term first appeared, which was probably in the mid-90s, it was, as far as I know, still intended as a definition of a certain form of improvisation - and above all to set itself apart from other terms like “free jazz“, “experimental music“, “new music“, and so on. It was a very reduced form of improvisation, therefore often referred to as reductionism. But since I wasn't on the ground then, I don't want to hold forth about it. What I do believe, however, is that reductionism still has a strong influence on the scene in Berlin today. Probably not in the same extreme form as back then, but definitely as a formal phenomenon. Today there is certainly much more diversity: new music, rock, noise, sound art, jazz of course, etc. One of the reasons is that the musicians often have completely diverse musical and cultural backgrounds. Today, that’s what “Echtzeitmusik“ means to me. It’s less a musical definition, it’s rather a collection of different forms of improvised music. Even if the spirit of reductionism still shines through until today.

In what way do you benefit from Echtzeit?

I’d rather say that I benefit from the Berlin scene, from the many different artistic personalities around me, from the people who have moved in from all over the world. I try to let myself be influenced by that and thereby sharpen my own profile. I go to concerts and try to play a lot with musicians of different generations, both with those who were already here in the 90s and with much younger ones who may have landed in Berlin for completely different reasons.

Has Echtzeit influenced your music?

Most definitely - if we talk about “Echtzeitmusik" coming out of reductionism. Maybe it’s not that recognisable in the music I make and publish today. But formal structures or the handling of silence and sound are absolutely present. As I said, I wasn’t in Berlin in the 90s, when this music had its heyday. I didn’t know anything about it at that time. I got to know most of it through recordings and later through direct contact with the “pioneers“. I played with many of them for the first time only when they had already stopped making reduced music.

What do you think could work better with the network?

I honestly never thought about "Echtzeitmusik" being a network before. There is a website where the current dates are listed as well as links to venues, etc. And this website is maintained by some people and always kept up to date, which is a great contribution. But the real, personal network is probably always the scene, friends, colleagues, etc. And not just in the city where you live. So from that point of view, I can't really answer your question about what could work better.

But your question is interesting because it actually points to something else! Namely, that the term “Echtzeitmusik“ seems to be pretty much attractive for many people! Many of us would perhaps say that they play “Echtzeitmusik“ without that term being explicitly defined.

To what extent do you think the scene has changed since you’ve got involved and what could be the reason for these changes?

The scene today is much more colorful, much more international, and probably less dogmatic. Of course, this has a lot to do with the changes in the city. Enormous numbers of musicians from all parts of the world have enriched the scene and given it new impulses, and in the last 20 years the scene has become much bigger. Berlin in the 90s and also at the beginning of the 2000s was a completely different city than today. This has had an impact on all areas and it’s been documented by all different fields of art and so - of course - by us as well.

Is what could be called “Echtzeitmusik“ connected by an approach, a process or a sound result?

Well, I don't know that either. The reduced - that is, “original - “Echtzeitmusik“ is still being made. But as I just said, the improvisation scene in Berlin is much more diverse now than it was 20 years ago. At that time, I think the desire to stand out from other forms of improvisation was much greater than it is today. Today, if you look at what concerts are listed on the website, there’s all kinds of stuff: jazz and impro, composed new music, etc. So there’s a wild mix going on. And from that point of view, I don’t think you can speak of a specific approach today.

Are there any recordings, labels, venues, musicians or other people involved that you would like to highlight because they have contributed a lot to the scene or that you consider essential to it?

One CD that was quite important for me is Barcelona Series by Andrea Neumann, Axel Dörner and Sven Åke Johansson (Hat Hut Records, 2001). For me, it’s a record that exemplifies the musical development of the Berlin scene. Of course, I can also recommend the book Echtzeitmusik - Definition einer Szene (Wolke Verlag, 2011) and the accompanying 3-CD box set, published by Mikroton in 2012. Event series that still play an important role for “Echtzeitmusik“ today are “Labor Sonor“ and the “Biegungen“ at the “Ausland“ club, which have always existed, as it feels. Other important venues for Improvised Music in Berlin today are “Sowieso“, “KM28“ and “Au Topsi Pohl“.

Thank you for the interview, Matthias. 

- Interview conducted by Martin Schray

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echtzeit@30: An outsider’s perspective of echtzeitmusik

Outside ausland.  ausland © tic / Friedel Kantaut

By Keith Prosk

I don’t remember when I first came across the term echtzeitmusik. I do remember the first recordings that I heard associated with it were Matthias Müller’s solo trombone and George Lewis & Splitter Orchester’s Creative Construction Set™. I found the cover design and solo instrumentation of the former alluring and then upon listening that its quiet, airy explorations opened new avenues to my ears in a similar way as another concurrent interest in Michel Doneda’s Anatomie des clefs from Potlatch, one of the labels that has been an advocate for this kind of music. In the latter, from another advocate in the Mikroton label, I found a network of musicians with analogous approaches across instrumentation to check out. But what is echtzeitmusik?

If anything I hope this week demonstrates the diversity of who and what might be associated with the term and likewise the diversity of the term’s meaning and utility to the practitioners associated with it but here I’ll offer an outsider’s perspective. It tends towards quieter dynamics but rarely contains hyperbolic silence. It often involves traditional western instruments though sometimes in electroacoustic scenarios and more often than not played with extended techniques. That’s where a common footprint in the sound result probably ends. It might find close cousins in other ‘reductionist’ terms like wandelweiser, onkyo, and lowercase though often the mechanisms and sound results associated with these terms are noticeably different. A context that it does seem to share with these other terms comes in its meaning, real-time music, which I interpret as a heightened awareness of music as an unfolding in relation to the contingencies of its time or, whether improvised, composed, or any blend of them, an environment in which performers listen to the sound they’ve sounded and respond to it. Finally, and in what is perhaps the central aspect, it is a Berlin-based network of people, many if not most of whom at any given time happen to be expatriates, that has so far existed in some form since the fall of the Berlin Wall and often works collectively (though trickily enough I would not lump in, say, the folks associated with the Berlin-based Harmonic Space Orchestra despite many similarities and overlap, perhaps because that group has a singular interest in just or rational intonation that is not necessarily shared among those associated with echtzeitmusik).

In its breadth the usefulness of the term is questionable, but there seems to be something distinguishable among its fuzzy lines and in that way it might be like jazz, something recognized rather than defined. And of likely interest to our readers is its common use of western traditional instruments in real-time responsiveness that might be heard as improvisation or something like it in even its more composed contexts. Indeed recordings from many players associated with the term frequently appear on the blog, from Burkhard Beins to Werner Dafeldecker to Axel Dörner to Robin Hayward to Magda Mayas to Olaf Rupp to Michael Thieke to Biliana Voutchkova to too many others to reasonably list. To a degree, we are always celebrating what might be called echtzeitmusik but for a few days we are using the 10th anniversary of the book, echtzeitmusik berlin: self-defining a scene , and the 20th anniversary of the website, echtzeitmusik.de, as an excuse to shine some special attention on it.

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echtzeit@30: Q&A with Emilio Gordoa

Emilio Gordoa. (c) Cristina Marx/Photomusix

Explore Emilio Gordoa’s site here . Recent releases include Kategorium with Piotr Damasiewicz and MOVE in MOERS with Achim Kaufmann, Adam Pultz Melbye, Dag Magnus Narvesen, and Harri Sjöström.

What is echtzeitmusik to you? Is what might be considered echtzeitmusik connected through any approach, process, or sound result?

Most of your questions could have multiple answers, it depends what we focus on, as there are multiple layers within that label attributed to the music scene in Berlin. For now I better skip the description of the type of music we are talking about, since it would be entering into another universe connected with other attributions and what is part and what is not. When I think of "echtzeitmusik" I think of time. Not necessarily in real time, but in the course of a decade since I arrived in Berlin and my position back then living the legacies of the previous decades (from early 90's). And of course, at that time I would refer to the "echtzeitmusik" scene as a type of music with a certain sound and approach. Nevertheless, this has changed as well as our times and surroundings... Today we look back and we can see generations with different approaches of very interesting musicians, we can find several publications, among others the today almost archaic book "echtzeitmusik berlin" (2011), we have an online calendar with the same name that lists up to date concerts of jazz and free jazz, contemporary music, experimental, noise, performances, minimalism, alternative pop, and more... What is echtzeitmusik?... Today it is a big family, in some cases segregated, with many creative members trying to survive.

Is there something material - like demographics, affordability, or cultural practices - about Berlin that you think makes such a scene possible?

This question would have had a different answer before the pandemic when mobility and the execution of cultural practices seemed to be the usual thing to do. So my answer probably has more connection with your next question.

In what ways do you think the scene has changed since your involvement and what might have caused these changes?

Although the cost of living in the city had already begun to rise exponentially, there was still a heterogenous and vibrant flow. Today I would not put the idealistic vision of accessibility and the possibilities of fostering the scene at all magnificent. I can observe two types of realities for musicians in the scene. Those who have established themselves by gaining a position in the German and European scene and who can enjoy the privilege of getting funding and being regularly invited to festivals and/or projects supported by institutions; and those who are just integrating and/or are not in the formal structures to gain capital from the artistic sector. For some of them booking a gig in one of the venues in Berlin for the door turned to be an achievement. I have the feeling that the underground I experienced 10 years ago is on the verge of extinction due to the rigidity of the rules and conditions of being able to offer live music in a venue. Things that in the past would not be so prevalent. However, not everything is a dark reality as this may sound. I see that rigidity brings new ways of manifesting and breaking and the new generations of people on the scene have that power. I am in between.

In what ways has the scene changed you and your musical practice?

Definitely in the way I listen and transform my skills and emotions into a community dialogue and in the transmission to the audience.

Are there any recordings, labels, venues, musicians, or other participants you would like to shout out for cultivating the scene, or that you feel are essential to it? And is there a recording of you or your work that you feel is particularly representative of the scene?

Oh yeah, right. There are countless examples... Many have probably been mentioned before. For me venues that are a strong part of my community are: Au Topsi Pohl, run by a musicians crew plus Veronica and Laura putting excellent wine and vibe in the bar; Sowieso, currently also run by a musicians collective - in both venues I play often but also voluntarily help doing the bar or the door, if needed; as well we find Petersburg Art Space, Kühlspot Social Club, KM28, LaborSonor, Ausland crew, Exploratorium Berlin among some others. Then there are also relatively new inputs from Field Notes - Initiative Neue Musik, Musikfonds e.V, who are constantly boosting the scene with promotion and opportunities. About a recording of mine that could be representative of the scene?... Well, lets listen to my early recordings with Ignaz Schick and Nicola L. Hein. This would represent the flow, energy and sounds I experience around 2015:

https://www.emiliogordoa.com/tagged/music/page/2

Not so far from each other but more actual would be my recordings from 2021 with sound artist, composer and long time integrant of the echtzeitmusik scene since Annette Krebs. Here a video excerpt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81rCTsiShnA

The a recorded album will be published soon on my little label WildSonico.

What did you find in Berlin that was not in Mexico?

A living history. The possibility of entering in a community without the need a long proofing process. The possibility of entering into an economic structure attributed to my own practice without compromising my musical anarchy. Bad Mexican food. Axel Dörner. 

 

- Interview conducted by Keith Prosk

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Echtzeit@30: Q&A with Ignaz Schick

Ignaz Schick. (c) Cristina Marx/Photomusix

FJB: What is echtzeitmusik to you? Is what might be considered echtzeitmusik connected through any approach, process, or sound result?

Ignaz Schick: For me „Echtzeitmusik“ mostly is a community of similar minded musicians who started arriving in Berlin in a particular time, from the fall of the wall onwards, who were more or less from a similar generation and who were asking similar questions, confronted with similar hardships, at a certain moment of musical stand still within the first wave of European free jazz and improvised music. A community who were researching similar musical ideas or concepts and who often but not only improvised. For me Echtzeitmusik never stood for a musical aesthetic or method, nor for a style, …. What was new and maybe a key element was the use of extended instrument techniques, instrument building, electro-acoustic sounds and electronics, also the incorporation of formal/material elements inspired from different streams of contemporary music (i.e. musique concrète, minimalism, microtonality) but also a curiosity towards all kinds of forms of experimental (underground) music like noise, ambient, song formats, performance, sound installation. The development of course took its time and over the years developed into a huge and fertile community with several generations of musicians who quite soon started to be noticed worldwide, …. But there is not such a thing like a typical sound or style, the musical results are as diverse as its practitioners and characters. There is sometimes still this cliché (mostly from outside of Berlin) that Echtzeitmusik equals with „reductionism“, this has been attempted to be propagated by a rather small group of players and influencers who pushed into this directions in the late 90ies and early 2000s. There was an extreme period of deep research into those realms, but at the same time others were working into very different directions (i.e. new jazz and song formats, noise, performance or even with techno and club music elements).


Is there something material - like demographics, affordability, or cultural practices - about Berlin that you think makes such a scene possible?

Definitely for the first 10 to 15 years it was the economic & socio-political situation in Berlin in the time after the wall came down. The city was financially broke, and had to re-organize after the collapse of GDR system. The fall of the GDR system had created a vacuum mostly in the East part of town, not only that there was an unclear real estate situation, also politically all the beliefs and utopian hope of the left were scattered, … There were tons of empty lots/houses/factories with totally unclear ownership status, and people went into those houses and squatted them, or rented them for almost nothing, or used them temporarily. For us young musicians who were mostly ignored or not acknowledged by the previous generation of aging free jazz heroes. Many of us were literally kept out of the clubs and funded venues, but we could bypass this ignorance and just create, experiment & explore and also perform concerts with our new ideas in the squats. There was maybe not always excitement about our music in such places, but a huge tolerance for our experiments as there were new forms of living which were experimented with in the squats. We didn’t make much money, but we also did not need much. The housing conditions were often very rough (apartments with coal ovens, cold water, no shower or toilet on the public stair case), but for me particularly as for many others this did not matter, I grew up on a farm and I had a similar childhood with little „confort“. Most important for us at the time was: living costs & rents were extremely low. This attracted more and more adventurous musicians and artists from all over the world. Rents for a long time stayed extremely cheap, and as a result there were/are many spots and venues were opened with no commercial pressure where musicians could perform. And most improtant: nobody had to compromise his ideas and concepts, we could be as radical as we wanted, we were in the underground anyway, nobody told us how to play or adapt our music in a commercial way. Musicians in this music want to perform, as often as possible, like in the old jazz days, as we are developing a lot of our music live on stage. We also always met and worked (…) on our music in rehearsals, but then it really needs concerts to be able to evaluate your findings. In Berlin this was always possible, in contrast to other cities also today you can still play a lot, and this of course has always attracted a lot of adventurous musicians and people from all over to move to Berlin. We have had an amazing influx of fantastic players int he last 30 years, the whole range from super young and unknown to also very known and established players who want to be part of this amazing community...

In what ways do you think the scene has changed since your involvement and what might have caused these changes?

Although that tendency started already in the 90ies it is way more international now. The amount of musicians has probably trippled or quadrupled. The level and the quality of musicianship has constantly been raised. And the stylistic variety of the music is much more diverse today. I think this happens quite naturally as all those people who moved to Berlin also bring in their individual ideas, approaches and experiences and they start merging and fusing with those already present. So the technical quality is way more sophisticated and refined. In the early/mid 90ies the sound of Echtzeit was more noisy and raw, in the meantime it went through several phases of refinement but also through stylistic transitions.

Now there is more inter-collaboration of musicians from different stylistic backgrounds (jazz, new music, sound art, noise, elects-acoustic), people tend to think less in stylistic drawers. Many are involved in different projects, that can resulting in different music every time.

Another thing I notice is that there is much more money/funding involved, the scene grew up, got attention and gets financial support from the cultural administrations. Which also is deeply needed now as the days of cheap rent or empty spaces which can be used for free are long over. Many of the musicians I started out with are now internationally respected and renowned or have become professors. That is pretty awesome I would say, but sometimes also feels a little strange. And of course with the change of the monetary situation also the conditions of production have changed: when I do projects, I have to attempt to raise funds first in order to be able to pay my musician, the venue, the technicians. This was definitely not the case in the 90ies, everything worked in a completely different way, ….

In what ways has the scene changed you and your musical practice?

Hard to say, one thing most notably may be that I switched to electronics at an early point in Berlin, … I did already use electronics since I was a teenager and tried to incorporate electronics into my set-up in my Munich days, but it was in Berlin and the earlier Echtzeit days that I decided to make electronics my main instrument for live-perfornance. And I went through a deep research phase of sonic materials and alternative forms together with my colleagues. For quite some years I did not compose nor play saxophone in concerts anymore. I was busy researching and developing my musical language on turntables and electronics. But that is different now again, as I brought back composition, saxophone, sound installation, visual arts, …. But this is something the Berlin scene has been amazing with, this open supportive climate which allows for people to experiment. I have witnessed how many people have completely changed their sound & concept of playing after they arrived here, there is a big tolerance for extreme experimentation in Berlin, always has been.

What I definitely enjoy is this openess of the scene, like so many people are experimenting and are learning from each other, stimulating and challenging each other. I constantly involve with younger musicians, from diverse stylistic backrounds, and I constantly learn, I have to constantly rethink my playing … The scene definitely taught me to stay awake, to keep on researching, to stay curious, and to keep developing my skills and practice, ….


Are there any recordings, labels, venues, musicians, or other participants you would like to shout out for cultivating the scene, or that you feel are essential to it?

Well, that is a bit unfair and difficult, cause there are so many amazing players, but definitely the whole first wave of Echtzeit players like Andrea Neumann, Burkhard Beins, Annette Krebs, Axel Dörner, Robin Hayward, Michael Renkel (=Phosphor) are always worth to be checked out, but also players like Olaf Rupp, Tony Buck, Margareth Kammerer, …. This are all aging veterans of our scene, but they also stand for a certain reliable quality.

Nowdays it is more complex, as there are so many streams, generations and approaches, all the new noise and electro-acoustic artists, the ones who go more into sound art, pretty everyone in Splitter Orchestra, but also all those people who are developing a new hybrid form of jazz and contemporary music (like Christian Lillinger, Achim Kaufmann, Oliver Steidle, Uli Kempendorff…). Or what I call "the new young wild ones" around Loophole and Multiversal (Rieko Okuda, Antti Virtaranta, Utku Tavil, …) who are coming along with a totally different and often opposing musical approach towards the first generation of Echtzeit. Some of this is still in flux and development, but I really dig this next generations as they are challenging the first generation and our musical achievements. I don’t want to fall into the same trap door of ignorance as did so many of the 1960ies players towards us when we came up. I want to stay open and curious, even if I don’t always understand what the young ones are doing. I want to keep learning, and most you learn by playing with others, no matter if older, same generation or younger.

And is there a recording of you or your work that you feel is particularly representative of the scene?

I am not sure if I am particularly representative for the scene, I have so many different interests stylistically, from EAI, new jazz, new music, noise, sound art, electronic music. I think best is to just check my archival series on Bandcamp (http://www.zarekberlin.bandcamp.com), there are a lot of different things and projects to explore, music from various periods, …Soon I will also update the archival series (…) with compositions of mine.

My recent activities besides long going groups like Perlonex have been working with ILOG (with Oliver Steidle), Circuit Training or Inside A Leaf, or the duos with Frank Gratkowski, Christian Lillinger and Achim Kaufmann, or a larger group including Rieko Okuda and others from that circle of musicians.


In September of this year, you had a month-long exhibition in Berlin (and earlier in Munich) featuring other aspects of your art, could you talk a little bit about how this work (sound sculpture, graphical scores, LP-art) has evolved?

After secondary school I decided not to study music but visual art. I had studied music since I was eleven, and I needed a different perspective/look at things. (…) In parallel to my music I always had a strong interest in painting/collage. I always tried to fuse this two art forms, and a good way to go about this was doing graphic scores, vinyl objects, music machines or sound installations. I never really pushed a career in art. I found the art market way more disgusting than the jazz (club/festival) scene. Also my heavy touring routine did not allow a constant practice in art. For logistic reasons I mostly worked into sketch books. But from time to time I got invited and asked to do some stuff and then in 2019 an old friend and supporter from the country side of Bavaria, where I grew up, and who turned me onto music and art back in the day, asked me to do an exhibition at his farm. He is an amazing artist and music lover, he is 85 years old now and he still organizes exhibitions at his farm which he converted in big parts into a showroom. So I said yes, and the whole thing came out quite beautiful, it was a little bit like a retrospective, and thus I decided that it would be nice to show this works in Berlin as well, but in a much smaller space. Like this the four chapters came about, due to the size restrictions of the room. For „The Theory Of Everything“ I made two new sound installations, and I showed also two older ones, … With the four chapters I decided to change the main installation once a week, the rest of the show stayed for the whole time, … There were collages, graphic scores, cut-up vinyl multiples and objects that I also often use in my turntable performance and which often also have an attractive visual aspect, …

Like in most of my works also in the sonic installations, I work with found objects, I find stuff on the street, or on junkyards, or over the internet, like old speakers, household items and left behind stuff, and I assemble them in a new context. Like left behind speakers which are prepared with glass cylinders cut out of jars, and then I add objects to resonate. Through vibration, the mechanical speaker vibration, objects are triggered to resonate through sound waves. Or I use vibration motors from mobile phones, massage machines or sex toys, and I trigger them through MIDI to animate various metal objects, frame drums or Porzellane to resonate through vibration, …. Usually I work in a serialist way, like 48 source speakers, 22, speakers with fishing rods, or a swarm of 46 metal objects, … Swarms, clouds, or symmetric rows, … This way of working links it with the way I use turntables. Playing turntables is also a way of recycling and re-composing existing material into a completely new context. The same it is with scores, I often use old photogrpachs or graphics from scientific books, I cut them out or glue them into graphic scores and just change the meaning of the parameters, like a graph of population growth becomes pitch movement, or dynamics and so forth, …. It is playful, but has a hidden system and logic, like translating from one sphere to another.

- Q&A conducted by Paul Acquaro

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echtzeit@30: Q&A with Annette Krebs

Annette Krebs. (c) Cristina Marx/Photomusix

Explore Annette Krebs’ site here . Recent releases include Konstruktion#1 & 2 | Sah and Konstruktion#4 .

FJB: What is echtzeitmusik to you? Is what might be considered echtzeitmusik connected through any approach, process, or sound result?

Annette Krebs: I think that the term Echtzeitmusik, although it has established in recent years as a style, is still in transformation - at least I hope so.

Originally, we used the term Echtzeitmusik to describe a music genre whose protagonists have diverse backgrounds in music and art, for example, from the classical, jazz, punk or other music genres, or who have studied art and make their art musically audible. Echtzeitmusik is definitely characterized by the combination of various improvised and composed music techniques. It has a lot to do with sound research, adventurousness and musical interest in equal, non-hierarchical (p.e. decoratively arranged) connections of noises, sounds and tones.

I speak here of what I associate with real-time music for 20 years, although today the term may have changed or moved away from some of what I define here.

Is there something material - like demographics, affordability, or cultural practices - about Berlin that you think makes such a scene possible?

For a long time, it was easy to move to Berlin because the prices of apartments and the cost of living were not so high. The city had a lot of free spaces in the vacuum between the two systems of East and West. So, many artists and musicians could meet, work together and also find new spaces for music and art easily. Unfortunately, this has changed in recent years, but there is still a great fluctuation, the city is still inspiring because many interesting musicians and artists from all over the world come to play, live and work here.

In what ways do you think the scene has changed since your involvement and what might have caused these changes?

My preferred time was when the scene was not even called like that, when we started to invent our music and when we were still unknown. I liked the freedom, which was also due to this unknownness and the almost complete absence of money involved. We could develop music without compromise, without thinking about marketing or other capitalistic things. Sometimes five people played on a small stage for six people in the audience, and those six people listened very well and critically, but the music was intense, authentic and very thoughtful.

Today I don't know the scene as a whole so much, because it has become very big and diverse, with over a hundred participants. The term Echtzeitmusik is not clearly defined. This is good, but I'm afraid and observe a little bit that there may already be rules on how to perform Echtzeitmusik, and that you could get graded one day in Echtzeitmusik at music academies. Of course, that would be the opposite of the freedom of art.

Personally, I need the retreat into silence, and the intensive work with a few people, to find and elaborate music in a concentrated way. Therefore, I do not know exactly how the scene as a whole has changed.

Are there any recordings, labels, venues, musicians, or other participants you would like to shout out for cultivating the scene, or that you feel are essential to it? And is there a recording of you or your work that you feel is particularly representative of the scene?

I would not like to do that so happily. I don't believe so much in the artistic necessity of defining a scene, but rather in the creativity of many individual people who are then called this scene. All people are important. Therefore I would not like to shut out someone, or a special production as especially representative: everyone can find out for themselves what they find most inspiring. A lot of information and links are collected on the website “www.echtzeitmusik.de.”

What could ‘real-time’ mean in the context of echtzeitmusik?

It could mean “instant-composing-performing.”

But it does not necessarily have to. 

 

- Interview conducted by Keith Prosk

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Olaf Rupp - Sunday Interview

Olaf Rupp Photo (c) Bogdan Edi Dimitriu

What is your greatest joy in improvised music?

I like the ephemeral character of improvisation. That means when it is happening it is really living music, really alive with all the marvels and pitfalls of the human mind. It is like talking with the others but without the talking. And when it is over, it is gone. There is silence and the room is not filled with stones that I have chiselled.

What quality do you most admire in the musicians you perform with?

Rudi Fischerlehner has found a wonderful way to bridge the gap between regular looping beats and free flowing pulse. It reminds me of the orbiting grooves that Björk once had on an App she published. Like multiple, circular layers of polymetric patterns. This gives the other players a lot of freedom to choose without breaking up the connection.

Ulrike Brand was the first (and only) classical player who came to me and asked me explicitly to play the electric guitar in duo with her on cello. Many are blinded by the cliché connotations of the Stratocaster (loud, wild, aggressive) and forget how wonderful these electric sounds go together especially with the cello.

Rudi Mahall has incredibly sharp ears and swift reaction. And I especially like his open mind. He is very much rooted in the Jazz-language, but we played for decades now in many different settings that were stylistically sometimes very far away from that and he always finds a natural way to contribute.

Which historical musician/composer do you admire the most? If you could resurrect a musician to perform with, who would it be?

Never ever in my life, not a single moment have I ever been bored. I don’t know what boredom is. When there is a moment with nothing to do, I just direct my mind to the music. It works like switching on a radio in my head. And this music is so wonderful! If only I could play this on my guitar!! Well, I do my best. But there is no time to look back too much. I am not a music-historian. I look forward and follow my vision. And I like very much to play with musicians younger than me. Because they very often also have a strong vision. Older musicians have a plan, a strategy, youngers have visions. My plans never work.

What would you still like to achieve musically in your life?

I would like to keep my music alive as long as possible.

Are you interested in popular music and - if yes - what music/artist do you particularly like

David Bowie, Björk, Double Nelson, This Mortal Coil, Sisters Of Mercy, Legendary Pink Dots, Blind Idiot God, Swans, Neu, Leonard Cohen, Jacques Brel, Lee Perry

You see I stopped buying records somewhere end of the eighties, when life got really, really tough. In recent popular music there are certainly interesting things, but I could not tell you names. I never was good at namedropping.

If you could change one thing about yourself, what would it be?

My “self” is not the part of me that I am worried about. Of course, it belongs to me like my bones and my veins and my fingernails. I have to deal with it every day. I wake up with it. Cannot help.  But it is a complex system. If you change one thing, you just move the balance on a boat and tilt it to the other side. Of course we all want to be stronger, more beautiful, more resilient, more whatever. But it is important to step back and take a wider and calmer look. Then it is not about change myself but rather change how I deal with myself. How I get along. Actually I'm not a big fan of the Stones, but there is some truth in “you get what you need”!

Which of your albums are you most proud of?

I am not proud of any of my albums. They were produced under very poor conditions. Often me doing the recording, mixing, mastering, layout and promotion all as well. And I am a very bad promoter. Once I am gone, nobody will find my albums. Maybe the Youtube-videos will keep crawling the internet on a dystopian planet.

LIFE SCIENCE was a big step ahead, with a real, helping label FMP. But I recorded it in one day in an abandoned building at Oranienburger Straße with a microphone directly into a CDr-recorder. All very rough and free falling.

MYOTIS MYOTIS is a wonderful album, but it is now completely ghosted by the curators. Well, not completely: SERIOUS SERIES have invited us to perform in December!

Once an album of yours is released, do you still listen to it? And how often?

Not often but sometimes it’s good to check again how it changes in time. Well, the album does not change but I do change.

Which album (from any musician) have you listened to the most in your life?

Joe Williamson, HOARD

David Sylvian, SECRETS OF THE BEEHIVE

György Ligeti, ATMOSPHERES

Cecil Taylor, ERZULIE MAKETH SCENT

What are you listening to at the moment?

Arvo Pärt, DA PACEM

 

Olaf Rupp reviewed on the Free Jazz Blog

• Xenofox - The Garden Was Empty (audio semantics, 2023)
• Ulrike Brand & Olaf Rupp - Myotis Myotis (Creative Sources, 2022)
• Rudi Mahall / Jan Roder / Olaf Rupp - Skyhook (Audiosemantics, 2022)
• Potentiale Festival: Shhh ... It's a Secret
• Echtzeit@30: Q&A with Olaf Rupp
• Guitar - Solo Part 1: Unexpected arpeggios and surprising onomatopoetics
• Olaf Rupp - NOBEACH (Audiosemantics, 2020)
• Two new releases by guitarist Olaf Rupp
• Olaf Rupp - Fuzzy Logic (Audiosemantics, 2020)
• Rudi Mahall Olaf Rupp Kasper Tom - s/t (Barefoot Records, 2019)
• Olaf Rupp's World of Guitar
• FMP. The Living Music; Berlin 3/14/18 - 3/21/18; The Concerts
• JR3 - Happy Jazz (Relative Pitch, 2017)
• Two by Olaf Rupp
• Olaf Rupp, Marino Pliakas & Michael Wertmüller - Toomuchisnotenough (FMP, 2009)

 

 

 

 

 

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echtzeit@30: Q&A with Madga Mayas

Magda Mayas. (c) Cristina Marx/Photomusix

Explore Magda Mayas’ site here . Recent releases include Objects of Interest with Tina Douglas, Spoken / Unspoken with Miako Klein and Biliana Voutchkova, and Dinner Music with Chritoph Erb and Gerry Hemingway as well as a print-only volume of non-standard notations, Graphème , in collaboration with Tony Buck, Racha Gharbieh, Mazen Kerbaj, and Ute Wassermann and featuring additional work from Tomomi Adachi, Lotte Anker, Marina Cyrino, Tina Douglas, Phill Niblock, Jon Rose, and Nate Wooley.

What is echtzeitmusik to you? Is what might be considered echtzeitmusik connected through any approach, process, or sound result?

I think in the beginning Echtzeitmusik was very much associated with a reductionist approach, or a starting from scratch and opposing other present movements such as the (Berlin) Free Jazz scene. Many people still associate this with Echtzeit. I think the musicians who started using the label see it more as a phase in the beginning and that Echtzeit can encompass all experimental/improvised music approaches currently happening in Berlin - however, I think that defies the point of using a label in the first place. So personally I guess I would see it as an important and defining movement that happened in the past, which since then branched out into many different directions (along with or parallel to other movements and styles).

Is there something material - like demographics, affordability, or cultural practices - about Berlin that you think makes such a scene possible?

Affordability certainly played a big role for many decades, which drew artists into moving to Berlin. This is of course changing, like everywhere else. As a particular feature of the scene, I also experience the need to discuss and reflect on music/art among musicians and audiences, often right after a performance has happened, as well as warm support among artists, who frequently come and see each others concerts/performances and help each other out. There are still many venues, established and new/temporary ones, where one can try things out, even residency type performances, where artists are asked to curate a couple of days (see Autopsi Pohl) - I find that quite special and necessary. Pre Covid there were also many house concerts happening - meaning a relaxed setting in peoples living rooms and backyards, to experience music. I have organized many of those over many years together with Tony Buck, as have Andrea Neumann, Ute Wassermann, Mazen Kerbaj and many others. Of course, house concerts happen in other cities too though.

Are there any recordings, labels, venues, musicians, or other participants you would like to shout out for cultivating the scene, or that you feel are essential to it? And is there a recording of you or your work that you feel is particularly representative of the scene?

Venues: KM28, Autopsi Pohl and ausland are among my favourites.

There are so many musicians, hard to make suggestions so I will just mention musicians who moved relatively recently, who are shaping and changing the scene: Marina Cyrino, Mathias Koole, Tony Elieh.

My duo Spill, with Tony Buck, started here in 2002. We released 4 recordings.

As smallest functional unit organized Graphème, I imagine you saw a variety of compositions from across the world and I wonder if you recognized any throughlines or even tenuous similarities in compositions or notations from the Berlin scene.

In the first edition we specifically did not include Berlin composers (other than ourselves), as we wanted to introduce the project as an international publication. Of course it being a first edition we also introduced our own work, all living in Berlin and being part of the scene here. I don’t think our 4 scores (Kerbaj, Wassermann, Buck, Mayas) are similar - quite the opposite. And I guess that’s also a problem with using labels such as Echtzeit - if it is supposed to include the totality of experimental/improvised music in Berlin it becomes a redundant label - unless all its meant to be is to represent diversity. One issue with this project was to bridge composed and improvised music scenes, which partly already happens in Berlin, however, one can still feel cultural and financial divisions.

 

- Interview conducted by Keith Prosk

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